48: Protein ice-cream? Collagen? Bone broth? Coconut yoghurt? Healthy or not?

00:00:00:05 - 00:00:24:09

Lyndi

Okay. I would like to tell you, your your weight is not the problem. It really isn't. I know you've been made to think your weight is a problem your entire life, but honestly, it's just been a red herring making you focus on diets that really suck and your weight is not. The problem is the title of my new book and I would really like you to read it if you've ever been made to feel like you need to worry about your weight that you're fixating on your weight is going to help you lose weight, which is nonsense.

00:00:24:16 - 00:00:46:23

Lyndi

This is the book you need to read. We tackle body image. We help you with practical strategies to feel normal, relaxed, and freedom around food, which are all fabulous things you also deserve. Please go to my website, Lyndi Cohen dot com and check out my new book. It's available from all great retailers. Please check it out. Oh, hey everyone and welcome to today's episode of No Witness.

00:00:46:23 - 00:01:07:24

Lyndi

I agree. I'm Lyndi Cohen, dietitian, nutritionist. And today I go with me another fellow dietitian, nutritionist Jono Steedman, I don't know if you know him, but it's not a happy joke and you definitely get to know about him. Now, after this conversation, he's the principal dietician and head honcho by me, nutrition, and that's a company dedicated to help all people make food, work for them, not against them.

00:01:07:24 - 00:01:26:22

Lyndi

And, you know, we all know what that's like when food is made to be turned into an enemy against us. So Jono is not about that life. That's why I like him. And if you don't, I reckon you should follow Jono on Instagram. His handle is at Jono a statement and you'll often see him calling out nutrition nonsense while wearing swanky.

00:01:27:03 - 00:01:36:07

Lyndi

And he often talks about, you know, I think he calls out the health halo really beautifully. And that's why I am so stoked to have him on the show. Welcome, Jono.

00:01:36:11 - 00:01:43:05

Jono

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I wish I'd known that you were going to sing the intro. We could have like to work on some harmony on something. Yeah, next time.

00:01:43:11 - 00:01:45:12

Lyndi

My voice is just so beautiful.

00:01:45:18 - 00:01:47:14

Jono

I'm glad it doesn't hate harmony.

00:01:48:24 - 00:02:10:11

Lyndi

I'm a Jono. I'm so happy to have you here because your insta feed is just, like, filled with good content. I was just flicking through it just before one of the stories you shared is kind of like this meme that gets shared around every few years where it talks about the protein in steak versus the protein in broccoli, and it's basically like a 100 calories of each of these foods.

00:02:10:19 - 00:02:17:07

Lyndi

You get more protein from broccoli, which is I mean, you call wellness Wankery on that. Why is.

00:02:17:07 - 00:02:38:20

Jono

That? Well, because they're missing a very important fact, which is the grams of that food that's required to hit that protein component. So it's about like 70, 80 grams of steak versus 350 grams of broccoli. And I love broccoli. It's one of my favorite vegetables, but I don't know if I could do 350 grams of it. If I did, my wife wouldn't be happy about it.

00:02:38:20 - 00:02:59:13

Lyndi

So I like to be like it's like the number of broccoli you would need to consume to hit that protein. And just like there are so many better ways so often we're seeing infographics like that, we're just like, it's nutrition nonsense, but because it's somehow in, you know, in a, it's a nutrition feed and the person posting it has a, you know, quote unquote great looking body.

00:03:00:02 - 00:03:02:04

Lyndi

We somehow think they know what they're talking about.

00:03:02:07 - 00:03:24:16

Jono

Yeah, definitely. And then there's, you know, numbers, calories per gram, all of these sorts of extra, I guess, things that lend it an illusion of legitimacy when it's you know, when you pull back and actually look at the application of that dairy, I'll use the fact that the term fact very generously. But you look at that fact in like it's actually not applicable to real life.

00:03:24:17 - 00:03:48:09

Lyndi

No, no, no. It's not practical, it's not doable. And therefore, what's the point? We're not robots. We need things to be doable. The other thing you often talk about is this idea of, you know, people often say to me, I feel like I'm just I'm hungry all the time. I can't stop eating. My appetite is insatiable. And you're very clear about the fact that you feel like lots of people just might not be eating enough food.

00:03:48:21 - 00:03:52:08

Lyndi

What are your thoughts about food as fuel? And and talk to me about that.

00:03:52:15 - 00:04:24:04

Jono

Yeah, definitely. I find that what can often happen in a pursuit of health, rightly or wrongly, is people focus on trying to eat as little as possible rather than, okay, maybe at certain times they need to eat a little bit less, or we need to adjust what we're doing in a day. But the amount of times that someone has a shot for nowhere near enough food completely not even beyond unsustainable, and they are very understandably hungry.

00:04:24:04 - 00:04:44:22

Jono

And then that of course, results in that overcompensation maybe later in the day or later in the week, purely because their poor body is crying out for food, nutrients and energy. And then they blame themselves, which is I guess that's how good is how good is the diet industry at that? Like somehow they've bought the dodgy product but they blame themselves.

00:04:44:22 - 00:05:08:11

Jono

You know, I think I joked ages ago about a vacuum cleaner. Like if my vacuum cleaner broke, I wouldn't be like, Oh no, what did I do? I'd be like this stupid vacuum cleaner. But for some reason, if the diet doesn't work, it's not the diet's fault. It's my it's my fault. And so these people are trying to get by on just nowhere enough nowhere near enough fuel or food, but then, like holding themselves responsible for that spot on.

00:05:08:17 - 00:05:30:21

Lyndi

And it's pretty outrageous. And you think about this classic low calorie diet of being told that we need to stick to is kind of more closely related to a semi starvation diet in many ways. And you have to be really mindful of everything you're eating so that you actually get all the nutrients that you need. And it can create us, create the sense of there was like a stinger where like all snacks have to be 100 calories.

00:05:30:23 - 00:05:46:05

Lyndi

I don't know if you have. I've seen all this magazine articles and I know the right amount of calories to have for a snack is what's going to keep what's going to satisfy you emotionally and physically. I'm going to help you get through to when you next have a chance to eat. That's the appropriate snack. So it might be 100 calories for some people.

00:05:46:11 - 00:06:00:23

Lyndi

Some people it might be like a mini meal or an actual meal. And I think the as you said, the trend them always seeing is people under eating during the day, thinking they're doing themselves a favor only to, you know, do the face plants into the pantry at night.

00:06:01:04 - 00:06:07:24

Jono

Just have something that is satisfying and then you'll be done. And then you can stop thinking about food for the next few hours and sort of get on with your life.

00:06:08:01 - 00:06:35:23

Lyndi

Yeah, there's something really emotionally satisfying about just going, This is what I'm going to eat and I'm going to eat it and and then be done with it as opposed to this like, oh, just only one more handful of nuts and then 20 handfuls of nuts later. Yeah, there are so many great things that you talk about. One of the things that, you know, you're often comparing products and I think there's a bit of an obsession with protein being added to things, and you often call that out.

00:06:35:23 - 00:06:58:10

Lyndi

And I just dig it because I think like, listen, proteins useful, important. But I think we have a bit of a crazy obsession with the highly processed protein powders and there is a bit of a double standard that happens in the wellness industry where like they'll tell you things like don't have this food because it's too processed, but then they'll happily sell you their protein powders.

00:06:58:10 - 00:06:59:23

Lyndi

And I just think it's such bullshit.

00:07:00:14 - 00:07:13:14

Jono

Yeah. Donate Weet-Bix because Weet-Bix it too processed. But my. Oh, this is getting too specific. Oh, my highly processed health powder is somehow it's a different form of processing, I promise, you know.

00:07:13:23 - 00:07:16:03

Lyndi

Yes. And they'll come forth at.

00:07:16:14 - 00:07:28:00

Jono

1,000%. Well, because fear sells, right? Like that's ultimately the number one marketing tool is to make something, someone afraid of something, and then you can swoop in and sell them the the quote unquote, healthy alternatives.

00:07:28:08 - 00:07:40:11

Lyndi

So should that be a bit of an alarm bell for us when when we see someone kind of using that fear mongering language, we can tell they're trying to get us into a bit of a tailspin. Should we kind of go, oh, that's a clue that this person doesn't know what they're talking about?

00:07:40:18 - 00:08:00:00

Jono

There is an actual format that you can find in Instagram captions, specifically where the first two thirds is about this product, this ingredient that you didn't know about, that's in our food that they're poisoning us so that they don't want you to know about or, oh my God, I've just found this out for myself. Something that kind of narrative.

00:08:00:05 - 00:08:18:04

Jono

And then I guarantee, I guarantee the last third will be here's some products that I really love, and some of those products might be unrelated or unaffiliated with them, but I guarantee you they've got a discount code, of course, or they're powder or they're oil, or that product that just so happens to conveniently solve that problem that you didn't even know you had.

00:08:18:04 - 00:08:22:09

Jono

And it's happens time and time again, and that's been probably so sorry.

00:08:23:03 - 00:08:45:12

Lyndi

I love it. Maddie It's no use for it. It is a formula. It's like, let's use fear is our primary marketing tool. And I think it's, it's, it's, it's dodgy and we're just, we're just not about that. The other thing I saw you calling out was there was some protein, some peanut butter that had added protein. You talked to me about that as a wellness food totally.

00:08:45:12 - 00:09:09:15

Jono

And it's leaning into that have health halo idea, particularly around the word protein. I am look I'm a gym bro. I love protein proteins. Fantastic. But yeah, this was a protein peanut butter. And when compared to the same product from the same brand, I literally contained an extra 1.5 grams per serving, which in the context of protein is nothing.

00:09:09:15 - 00:09:21:21

Jono

It's so negligible, I think. So instead of having five grams of protein per serving, it was 6.5 grams forgetting the fact that it's peanut butter, which is a fairly ordinary source of protein to begin with, but a lot more two year.

00:09:21:21 - 00:09:29:16

Lyndi

Olds and that that would be certainly for two year olds, great like grown adult. It's like, oh yeah, that's, that's such nutrition marketing isn't it.

00:09:29:24 - 00:09:53:19

Jono

Yeah. And it was an extra like it was an extra dollar, maybe dollar 50 a bottle as well. So of course the protein tax, there's like actual studies of having the word protein or high in protein on the label improves our perception of that fruit's healthfulness but if you can get the the total protein into the name of the food, then we tend to also extrapolate to lack of the health, you know, the fiber content, the iron content of that product as well.

00:09:53:19 - 00:10:01:13

Jono

So the fact that it's not peanut butter, the time protein, it was protein, peanut butter like, you know, five stars, marketing company.

00:10:01:18 - 00:10:16:08

Lyndi

Wow. I see. Okay. That is that is really interesting stuff. So we're kind of like assuming all this stuff just by saying the word protein, the other word that's often getting thrown around. So it was the phrase less sugar, lower sugar, no sugar, even though it probably does contain sugar.

00:10:16:08 - 00:10:19:11

Jono

That's just refined sugar free advice. My favorite.

00:10:21:02 - 00:10:37:05

Lyndi

Yes, I that kind of gets splashed around everywhere. And then we're going in and we're assuming that this is a healthier product. You've done you've done some really cool kind of comparisons of like something with a billabong ice cream, which if you're not from Australia, maybe do they have this.

00:10:37:06 - 00:10:38:05

Jono

Paddle pop billabong.

00:10:38:08 - 00:10:54:21

Lyndi

They should. It's like it's anyway it's a basic chocolate general, lots of flavors anyway. It's delicious. And then you compare it to like one of those, you know, apparently quote unquote, healthier alternatives and just calling out, well, what is it about the the comparison that you notice?

00:10:54:23 - 00:11:28:04

Jono

Partly, you know, when something says it's low in sugar, even if it is lower in sugar, there's no reference to any of the other ingredients that are going on in that product. And that was the main thing with the ice cream. The paddle pop was higher in sugar than the comparison ice cream. But that ice cream that I was comparing it to had like 50% of your daily saturated fat or possibly even more, you know, which we know that we don't want diets high in saturated fat, but and it was just higher in energy overall as well and definitely double plus the price.

00:11:28:11 - 00:11:49:17

Jono

But because it was a guilt free treat, it was a healthy alternative because it was low, specifically just in sugar. That was the one thing that they managed to change the ingredients or the, you know, the recipe for. And then they just drove home that it was low in sugar and it was the healthy choice. Apparently.

00:11:49:17 - 00:12:13:08

Lyndi

And, you know, I just think it's it's so ridiculous that they can get away with doing this. We've been in this phase of nutrition ism of absolutely hating on one particular nutrients. Right now, it's sugar is like the most feared thing, you know, forward, you know, rewind 20 years back to, you know, the nineties. And we knew saturated fat and fat was very much the villain.

00:12:13:17 - 00:12:32:00

Lyndi

And I think we can get into kind of like a binary way of thinking about nutrition. So it's like, well, they're fat good, but sugar is bad or whatever. But I think what we're looking for here is a balance of all these different mix of nutrients and how they interplay in the diet. It's not that sugars that isn't there fats that we're just trying to get those like the sweet balance.

00:12:32:00 - 00:12:50:15

Lyndi

Right. So I guess any time you're you're seeing someone and they are demonizing even even a sugar is not amazing. Too much sugar isn't amazing. This is truth. But if they demonizing and vilifying it is like this is the one thing you need to cut out of your diet. I think that's another sign that alarm bells should be going off in your brain.

00:12:50:18 - 00:13:12:03

Jono

Yeah, definitely. I think it's just missing the forest for the trees. Right. Like how many people sit with a sugar bottle and eat sugar from the sugar? So probably none of us, right? It's sort of. Yeah. And if you do, that's fine. No judgment. I'm just saying that that's probably not what most people are struggling with. It's you know, you want to be instead focusing on what foods are providing that sugar.

00:13:12:03 - 00:13:31:23

Jono

Because if you demonize something like sugar, then you demonize an Apple product because yeah, apples aren't low in sugar, but they're high in so many other amazing, you know, vitamins and minerals and nutrients and antioxidants and things. And so if you get to hyper focused on that one thing, you miss the other amazing important aspects of nutrition.

00:13:32:01 - 00:13:45:07

Lyndi

Spot on and how they're apples going to get digested is like vastly different from an apple with lollies. So let's not throw them all into the same into the same bucket. Can we talk about bloating? Oh, this is.

00:13:45:12 - 00:13:45:24

Jono

So.

00:13:46:11 - 00:14:00:18

Lyndi

I guess there's a bit of like a lot of hateful bloating, which is generally a natural process when you digest and eat. And it's we've come to be told that we are not allowed to have bloat. What are your thoughts here?

00:14:00:24 - 00:14:09:12

Jono

Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's tricky. Well, again, though, because if I can make you afraid of bloating, I can sell you my product, which will deepen.

00:14:09:18 - 00:14:11:17

Lyndi

It's a deep bloating supplements, isn't it?

00:14:11:20 - 00:14:35:23

Jono

Yeah, for sure. And look. Well, if you're struggling with what you feel is excessive bloating, speak to your GP. You want to rule out some particularly nasty things. But I would say more often than not it is a natural byproduct of eating 350 grams of broccoli or just eating, you know, that that gas production is your gut bacteria, the new large intestine having a good time, right.

00:14:36:00 - 00:14:50:19

Jono

You know, feasting on fibers and other things in your food. And as part of that process, they make a bunch of short chain fatty acids and other compounds which are really good for our health. So some level of bloating isn't just, okay. It's actually probably a good sign, you know? Yeah.

00:14:51:00 - 00:14:58:24

Lyndi

I love that refrain that like the fermentation in the gut is something you want that farts is like not about that thing that everyone's going to create gas and then everybody.

00:14:58:24 - 00:14:59:09

Jono

Farts.

00:14:59:09 - 00:15:13:05

Lyndi

Everyone farts if they get really smelly that we're going to like that. So let's look into that a little bit. Or, you know, as you say, like with the bloating, if it's like causing you a lot of discomfort, it's not just an esthetic thing where you're looking in the mirror going, Oh, I wish I had a flat stomach.

00:15:13:13 - 00:15:20:04

Lyndi

You're like, You're going I my stomach feels uncomfortable. I don't feel good. I feel like that's when we go to a doctor, right?

00:15:21:01 - 00:15:33:20

Jono

Totally. Yeah. If it's impacting quality of life, particularly with pain, discomfort, you know, change in bowel movements, all of those sorts of things. But if you've had a main meal and your stomach isn't a little bit bloated, that main meal was probably not big enough.

00:15:34:23 - 00:15:51:09

Lyndi

Actually not eating enough thing. Yeah, that's a really nice sign that you're meant to be you're, you're meant to be distended. And it's something I talk about in this focus a lot, as is sense of body image and especially for the women out there, men to I think when we eat we're going to expand. So when I buy clothing, I'm often thinking, well, what?

00:15:51:10 - 00:16:09:12

Lyndi

When am I generally going to wear this? If it's a nighttime dress? I kind of need to go well. I need to be able to sit down. I need to allow for the fact that I would have eaten throughout the entire day. And this dress is going to need to fit me at that point of the night. Not, you know, if I'm going shopping in the morning, that's not really going to reflect how my stomach is going to look at nighttime.

00:16:09:24 - 00:16:13:23

Lyndi

So just a little side note there for you, a little shopping trick.

00:16:13:23 - 00:16:21:15

Jono

And if you're wearing stuff that's tight on your abdomen, you can actually make you bloat even more so interesting.

00:16:21:15 - 00:16:35:04

Lyndi

And I did not I did not know that. I just thought it created a really intense discomfort. So as any person who's worn Spanx or those kind of control, Underwood's underwear will tell you, it can give you a stomach ache.

00:16:35:04 - 00:16:38:01

Jono

I must admit, I haven't worn Spanx yet.

00:16:38:10 - 00:16:39:10

Lyndi

Yeah, I know that's true.

00:16:40:08 - 00:16:43:10

Jono

It's true. Never say never.

00:16:43:10 - 00:17:13:03

Lyndi

I don't know about you, but I've been saying on social media a lot, this whole hormonal balancing expert emerging, whatever that is. And I it's such a it's such a silly claim to claim that you're a hormone balancing expert because that to an endocrinologist is someone who's who specializes in hormones. So that's a specialist doctor. Even as dieticians, nutritionists, we do know a lot about hormones and we do focus on them and that the interplay of everything but often these people claim to be homeless.

00:17:13:04 - 00:17:18:12

Lyndi

The housing experts have done like a few weeks of study or like they read the book.

00:17:19:20 - 00:17:21:12

Jono

Yeah, they have hormones.

00:17:21:12 - 00:17:27:24

Lyndi

What are your thoughts? Are they have hormones? Any thoughts you have about this whole like hormone balancing trend that's emerging?

00:17:28:02 - 00:17:52:19

Jono

It has such a air of legitimacy because you read through their captions that they've quite obviously copied out of a, you know, a Wikipedia article or something. And so and then you read, you see words like estrogen and testosterone and insulin and glucagon and, you know, leptin and like those sound very scientific. And so, again, you're like, wow, this person, they really know what they're talking about.

00:17:53:13 - 00:18:17:21

Jono

But the reality is just the phrase hormone balancing is problematic because our hormones will ebb and flow. They're supposed to insulin is supposed to go up and then go down, you know, testosterone increases and goes down at different times, you know, so if your insulin is perfectly, you know, stable all of the time, it's probably problematic.

00:18:18:08 - 00:18:26:04

Lyndi

So then can we say that anyone using the term hormone balancing properly doesn't even know much about hormones?

00:18:26:04 - 00:18:28:08

Jono

Huge red flag, huge red flag.

00:18:28:13 - 00:18:50:03

Lyndi

The other one that kind of links up with that is is immune boosting anyone who says immune boosting, because if your immune is boosted, that can be a sign of a immune condition. And we don't know. But your immune system functioning healthily, we don't want to consistently boost it. We wouldn't want it to be depleted. So that term in and of itself can be another red flag.

00:18:50:03 - 00:19:01:10

Lyndi

We're going, Well, how much do you really understand about the immune system for claiming that it's boosting it? It's a bit like when you have an allergic response where you get like hypoallergenic, hypoallergenic. You don't want that.

00:19:01:17 - 00:19:26:18

Jono

Yeah, that's that's your immune system being boosted. So if you're allergic to something, go eat it and your immune system will be boosted. Please don't do that. That was certainly tongue in cheek. But again, I think it just goes to like it's the people that want to skip the painful, sometimes boring background knowledge that, you know, we have spent 3 to 4 years full time studying to get to understand how the baseline processes work.

00:19:26:18 - 00:19:42:15

Jono

And so we know that a phrase like hormone balancing or immune boosting just doesn't make sense with the way that human physiology works. But if you just kind of skip over those years and just jump straight into a few blog posts, then you can very easily misrepresent how these complex systems work.

00:19:42:21 - 00:19:47:24

Lyndi

Spot on spot. And we wouldn't get into a play with a pilot who didn't have all the training is scary.

00:19:48:00 - 00:19:50:07

Jono

But she read a lot of books on flying and.

00:19:50:22 - 00:20:08:06

Lyndi

We trust our health of people who read, read a book or read a blog about nutrition. And then that's it's got to change. And I think what you touch on here is something we talk about in this podcasts is a lot of wellness Wankery is derived from a granule of truth and that's what makes it so hard because you're going to read and you're going to go, Oh, this sounds about right.

00:20:08:06 - 00:20:27:09

Lyndi

I've heard this before, and someone reputable said this, but then they build into it. They add the fear, they add the extreme language that now makes it nonsensical, not applicable. And I have a hard time giving you really clear guidelines after listening about how to dodge all of that, because there is always a bit of a granule of truth, and that's how they're cleaning us.

00:20:27:09 - 00:20:44:01

Jono

It's yeah, it's like the Trojan horse of wellness. Hey, like this. The fact that this fact is true, and then I'm going to fill it with a bunch of things that aren't true. And then I'll use those to make you afraid, and then I'll sell you something. But you're right. They're the definitely the more dangerous accounts, the account that a true 15% of the time.

00:20:44:01 - 00:20:49:02

Jono

Because then that makes it's the health halo again. Right. But yes, but all the 85%, they.

00:20:49:02 - 00:21:08:05

Lyndi

Are the most dangerous aren't they. And they're often the ones with the greatest followings. And just because someone has a lot of followers doesn't mean that they know what they're talking about. Something that else has caught my eye. It's kind of more it's been in the last few years, this whole idea about collagen bone broth and how this is something we should be having for our gut health.

00:21:09:03 - 00:21:28:21

Jono

If someone wants to show me legitimately one single study in humans that show that shows me that collagen supports gut health. I'm happy to chat. I'm still waiting. There's just there's there's no evidence to suggest that it does, you know, and I don't know what else to do with that information.

00:21:29:16 - 00:21:48:21

Lyndi

Yeah, there's there's it's kind of like the breakfast is the most important meal of the day concept where we have this thing that gets published somewhere and then instead of fact checking, is this true? Journalists who are really strapped for time, I feel for journalists these days because they've got such crazy deadlines that they need to pump things out.

00:21:49:03 - 00:22:11:04

Lyndi

They'll take the essence of something and they'll regurgitate it. And then once we see it in enough publication over enough years, we start to see it as fact whether or not it is or isn't. So there's a whole bunch of these wellness ideas that are just seen as truth, even though it's just it's just not based on much legitimate research or if any.

00:22:11:09 - 00:22:13:08

Lyndi

In the case of collagen and bone broth.

00:22:13:08 - 00:22:17:07

Jono

Yeah, I think you just repeated enough times and it becomes true, right?

00:22:17:19 - 00:22:39:11

Lyndi

Yeah, that's exactly. That's it. It becomes part of what we what we believe, rightly or wrongly. So let's talk about. So there is a bit of a movement away from dairy with a lot of milk alternatives, yogurt alternatives. I saw a post talking about coconut yogurt, about soy yogurt, just yogurt in general. What are your thoughts around dairy and these kinds of alternatives?

00:22:39:13 - 00:22:59:16

Jono

We have to start with dairy. Yogurt, for the most part is really nutritious. It's really healthy. It's a great source of lots of nutrients. If someone can't tolerate dairy or yogurt or chooses not to eat it for ethical reasons. Great. We're really lucky in this day and age where we've got some fantastically nutritious alternatives that aren't dairy based.

00:23:00:10 - 00:23:22:23

Jono

I would argue that coconut yogurt is not one of those. It's delicious. Well, I don't think I've enough people have told me that I'm wrong, that I'm willing to be right by myself. But like it's it's. Yeah, I understand some people prefer the taste and that's fine if you want to consume it. But it isn't a healthier alternative to dairy.

00:23:22:23 - 00:23:46:05

Jono

It is much higher in saturated fat, and it's a different kind of saturated fat than we find in dairy. The saturated fat we find in coconut yogurt is more closely linked with, you know, increasing our risk of cardiovascular disease among a lot of other things. It's very low in virtually all other nutrients compared to dairy yogurt. So I would much prefer someone if they aren't.

00:23:46:11 - 00:24:08:01

Jono

I know. So it can be quite a high allergy for people. But if you are tolerant of soy, there's a new rate. The new soy yogurts are fantastic. They contain a lot of the calcium in the protein that you find in normal dairy yogurts. There is the Chobani. You've done that oat one, which is not a fantastic source of protein, but a fantastic source of calcium.

00:24:08:01 - 00:24:36:03

Jono

You know, so that and both the soy and the ones are very low in that saturated fat. So again, making sure we're not going for these options because we think they're healthier than the dairy option. The dairy option is is probably the most nutritious. But if again, like I said, if you're in tolerate it or you don't want included for ethical reasons, there's those are the plant based options or alternatives that I would be going for as opposed to the the coconut yogurt, which has a great PR company behind it.

00:24:36:09 - 00:24:55:17

Lyndi

Such great people such as marketing. And really when we talk about yogurt, one of the selling points is calcium. We know anything enough. Calcium is as a nation as osteoporosis starts to look out of control. So getting that calcium, that's why they recommend three subsidiary at a. But you do need to kind of hustle for calcium a little bit.

00:24:55:17 - 00:25:14:10

Lyndi

So I'm always yeah both of those options where you can see there's actually calcium being added if if you can't handle dairy and one of the villains currently in the health world is oat milk. And that's a bit of a crusade. I have spoken about this a little bit on the podcast, but what are your what are your thoughts?

00:25:14:13 - 00:25:36:07

Jono

Yeah, it it's copping a hiding the two main criticisms I see leveled at it are firstly it's it's gi it's impact on your blood sugar levels, which again is relevant for some people. But also we then need to look at context. So similar to picking on one specific nutrient, how are you having that oat milk? Are you having it alongside a meal or with other foods?

00:25:36:07 - 00:25:57:21

Jono

Because those are going to change the impact of that glycemic index. The other thing I often see level data is a lot of milks have seed oils in them, which again are becoming the new public enemy number one. And the reality is there's no evidence in humans to show that seed oils are dangerous. In fact, there's a little bit of evidence showing that they might be slightly beneficial.

00:25:57:21 - 00:26:18:17

Jono

So if you like oat milk as your milk alternative one, try and get something with some extra calcium or, you know, b b vitamins added to it for that extra fortification. And then if you need to worry about your blood sugar because of a medical condition, have a smaller serve, pair it with other foods that are going to change the way that your blood sugar responds.

00:26:19:07 - 00:26:20:20

Jono

And don't stress about seed oils.

00:26:21:21 - 00:26:50:20

Lyndi

So I feel like all you know, if you're having just a glass, a huge glass of oat milk and you, you know, looking after your blood sugar levels, not as ideal as though if you're throwing it into a smoothie and you're adding in some some some yogurt, which is going to give you some some protein you're adding in those slippery carbohydrates, this thing like oats, that's that's such a different situation from just having it as it is or if you're adding it to porridge in the morning and that's, you know, putting your brekkie, I think also I think we touched on the idea of quantity.

00:26:50:20 - 00:27:11:01

Lyndi

Quantity really matters. You know, all you're doing is having a lot of oat milk, I think. Okay, well, let's start talking about it. But generally the amount we have of these kinds of foods is so minimal. And I see the health world, they go after these ingredients that really in the scheme of things, they don't even like play a big part of a role in your diet.

00:27:11:09 - 00:27:35:08

Lyndi

And it's like we're chasing after things that don't need to be chased after. We're missing the big picture, which is the fact that, you know, we're all eating out a lot more than we than we could be. I think we're always we can cook at home more, have more stuff that we know kind of what's in it, not get crazy about it, not cut out any like nutrients or got overly obsessed, you know, be mindful of things like, you know, ultimately ice cream is never going to be a health food.

00:27:35:13 - 00:27:49:08

Lyndi

Oh, and that kind of reminds me about this whole like permissibility around these these protein ice creams at the moment. Yeah. Just to wrap it up, because I think this is a really fascinating new category that's emerged, healthy ice creams. Can you talk about it?

00:27:50:04 - 00:28:14:11

Jono

Yeah. Well, I guess we're going back to protein and the powerful effect that that word can have on our perception of our products health. I think my overarching idea around these products is like ice cream. If you're struggling to hit your protein goals in a day, you probably shouldn't be using ice cream for that. Right. That's a that's a different conversation.

00:28:15:00 - 00:28:34:17

Jono

I don't use dessert to top up my protein for the day. I use dessert because it's delicious and I enjoy it and it's good for my soul and I don't care what anyone says. None of those protein yogurts are protein. The ice creams are good for your soul. You know, if you blind taste test with a normal ice cream and a protein ice cream, zero, people are going to pick the protein ice cream.

00:28:35:12 - 00:28:38:24

Lyndi

Ice cream with depressing ice cream days. Like if you've ever wanted to know.

00:28:39:17 - 00:28:56:09

Jono

Yeah. So just have the normal ice cream. Maybe if you need to adjust your portion or your frequency based on your goals and the rest of your diet. Sure. But opting for protein ice cream over normal ice cream is going to have a very minimal impact on your health, but a pretty solid impact on your wallet.

00:28:56:16 - 00:29:15:15

Lyndi

So these things, these tubs are very expensive. And I've seen some of the advertising behind them and they're very much talking about the permissibility of just even if you eat the whole tub. Oh, yeah, we have 320 calories. I'm thinking how unsatisfying is this product that people have to eat the entire tub and they still won't feel satisfied?

00:29:15:15 - 00:29:41:24

Lyndi

It is there is no richness, creaminess, nothing you actually want in an ice cream. And you know, Jenna, my co-host on the podcast, we talked about this idea how it is this diet food like diet chocolate mousse. You could just eat I could eat like six of those little containers. I never feel like I've actually had chocolate mousse the way it needs to be and to get these really kind of sugary tasting but low sugar things, they're adding in a whole bunch of different ingredients.

00:29:42:09 - 00:29:55:01

Lyndi

And like what Jenna and I would say, just have some ice cream, get the satisfaction, get their physical satisfaction, too, and move on with your life, you know? Let's do. Sure. Yeah. The depressing ice cream.

00:29:55:01 - 00:30:06:00

Jono

Yeah, it's. I definitely used to have that stuff and I deeply regret it. Loss of I will never go back.

00:30:06:15 - 00:30:36:12

Lyndi

Oh, good. I'm so glad I'm. Yes, I know. It's been delightful chatting to you and I feel like I could talk to you about all this nutrition nonsense for many, many hours. If anyone who's listening, please go check out Jono. I feel like he's a breath of fresh air on an Instagram feed that's full of bullshit. His Instagram handle, again, is at Jono Steedman and go checking out his website, but meet nutritional content you and listen to his podcast because it's another great option to listen to, to get some like real nutrition advice that's not loaded with all the nonsense.

00:30:36:23 - 00:30:58:04

Lyndi

Jono, thanks for coming on the show. Hey, everyone. And before we get started in the podcast episode, I just want to tell you a little bit about how I might be able to help you if you want to get a healthy relationship with food because oh, my goodness, there's a whole lot of stuff that's working against us all the time.

00:30:58:04 - 00:31:15:07

Lyndi

Hello, diet culture. So if you ever wanted a little bit more personalized support, check out my program. Keep it real, especially if you're struggling with binge eating. If you feel like every Monday you're starting from scratch, if you feel like you know what you should be eating, but you just can't stick to it if you feel like you want to eat healthier.

00:31:15:07 - 00:31:37:19

Lyndi

But honestly, it just feels like you're out of control through your face planting into the fragile pantry. I can help you. You binge either. I really do. I do get it. So check out keep it real news. The code podcast to get 20% off if you if you get it via the the website and also I've also got my app called back to basics back to basics is an app to help you be healthy without dieting and will help you work on your body.

00:31:37:19 - 00:31:59:03

Lyndi

Image gives you a whole bunch of hundreds of recipes that are super quick and easy to make so you can just be healthy without having to get obsessed with that at all, without it taking over your life, because that's the way it should be. Plus, you get mindset support for me inside the app. You also get a whole bunch of workout apps that you can do at home while you can still just do your normal workouts.

00:31:59:13 - 00:32:12:02

Lyndi

But check out back to basics. You can get it for free for seven days. Check out Back to Basics on my website. Use the code again podcast, get 20% off and I'd love to see in there. I'd love to see in there. I'd love to see in there.