Speaker 1: 0:39

For years I always thought it was my fault. I didn't realise there was a whole other way that you could look after yourself and approach your health. Exercise doesn't have to be like this. You don't have to hate it. And then here I come across intuitive eating. I think the scary thing about it is the weight gain, and I think that's one of the hardest things. I think it's the thing that holds people back the most.

Speaker 2: 1:09

In case you are new here and you've never listened to this podcast before hi, welcome. I'm Lindy Cohen. I'm a dietitian, a nutritionist, someone who used to be a compulsive, binge, emotional eater, and now I'm the kind of person who goes oh, it's lunchtime already. How did that come around so fast? I never thought I'd be the kind of person who would lose track of food, but now I never, ever track anything, and it's such a relief. I don't even know how many macros are in foods and I'm delighted by that. So if you feel like you've tried all the diets, all the things you've counted, and you just are so sick of that bandwagon and you want to get off, then I'm going to help you feel at peace and relaxed around food. So welcome to the podcast. All right, let's get into today's episode. Well, well, well, I am very excited for you to meet today's guest.

Speaker 2: 1:59

Today, I'm joined by Shereen El-Mazri, and she is, I mean, someone I followed on Instagram for a very long time. In fact, I couldn't even tell if I'd met her in person yet because I thought, oh, I just love all your content. She is a body positive writer, a personal trainer, a certified intuitive eating counselor, and she's also the author of the book Be you, be Free, and what I find liberating about Shereen. I mean lots of things, but it can feel quite rare to find a personal trainer who has all these things, who's also very inclusive in the way that they work and finding ways for us to find the joy, the fun in exercise again, and this is partially what this conversation is about. Plus, we talk about intuitive eating. What can feel scary? The fear that you might gain weight when you try intuitive eating, and what it really means. Does it just mean eat whatever you want whenever you want? We're going to be talking about it in today's episode, so let's do it. Shireen, welcome to the podcast. I'm very, very, very happy to have you here.

Speaker 1: 2:59

I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me as a guest.

Speaker 2: 3:02

Oh, such a pleasure. I would love to hear, for anyone who doesn't know you yet how did you become a personal trainer? Can you tell us your story?

Speaker 1: 3:11

Yeah well, it all started for me when I was diagnosed with an eating disorder when I was 27 years old. I was about to be hospitalized. My counselor told me at the time that if I didn't get better, she was going to section me onto the Mental Health Act. And I was like you know you can't do that. I'm 27 years old and you know you have no right. And she was like no, yes, I can. And that was like the turning point that I needed to throw myself into recovery and that's where I just found the non-diet approach and health every size and learned so much about dieting. For years. I always thought it was my fault and I didn't realize there was a whole other way that you could look after yourself and approach your health. And when I kind of got through all of that and I recovered, I was like I just feel like I need to help others with this. So I decided to have a career change and become a body positive personal trainer and a certified intuitive eating counselor.

Speaker 2: 4:07

Do you remember in those early phases how it felt to learn about intuitive eating? Were there any points where you felt scared that this approach was going to lead you to gain weight, feel out of control around food? Because I think that some of the hesitations people have that they think if I just let myself eat with a neutral lens to food, I think I'm just going to keep eating and never stop. How did you feel about?

Speaker 1: 4:32

it. I definitely found it really scary. I mean, it was amazing, I love reading it and I was like, yes, this is amazing, I can't wait to try this. But there was also part of me it was like and I was like, yes, this is amazing, I can't wait to try this. But there was also part of me it was like, okay, I'm really scared, I don't think this is going to work.

Speaker 1: 4:45

Your whole life you've been fed all these messages about certain foods being, you know, bad for you and you shouldn't eat these certain foods, and things like carbs being bad for you, and I had such a long list of fear foods as well. And then here I come across intuitive eating and it tells you you know, you can eat anything you want. You know, of course, there's a lot more to it, like it's a self-care model and you get into that. But at the beginning of those stages you know, absolutely, you do. You approach it like that. But I think the scary thing about it is the weight gain and I think that's one of the hardest things. I think it's the thing that holds people back the most. But for me, it got to that point where I'd lost so much and dieting had taken so much from me and you know, even though I was most likely to gain weight, I was going to gain so much more as well. I was going to gain, you know, my connections back with my family and friends. I was going to be able to be present again as well.

Speaker 1: 5:43

I mean, I remember I couldn't even watch a film without thinking about food. My sex drive was just, it was just non-existent, just not enjoying. I missed out on, you know, going on holidays and there's so many, so many things. I said no to dinners out, cocktails and yeah. So I knew that, even though the weight gain was going to be hard, I was ready for that stage and embracing that. But that doesn't mean to say it was easy. It was still hard to navigate that. But the more kind of nourished that you become, the more you can think clearer and the better that your life becomes. So it's hard, but the more you do it, the easier it kind of becomes and you, you kind of gradually become to that place of like acceptance.

Speaker 2: 6:31

I really like that concept, I think. When I think about dieting, I find it's actually quite easy to start a diet because you get given a list of rules do this, eat this at this point, and you go. Okay, I just have to follow the rules. But the longer you diet, the harder and harder and harder it gets, and then after years and years of dieting, it is so incredibly hard and I find intuitive eating the opposite.

Speaker 2: 6:54

I think the hardest part is getting started where you're going. Oh, my goodness, I have to totally revolutionize how I think about food, about what I'm allowed to eat, what I'm allowed to eat. But, as you're saying, it gets easier and easier and easier. So the hardest bit is this fear where you're going. I'm scared I'm going to gain weight. I'm scared I'm going to lose control around food. And, as you said, you got to this point where you thought what do I have to lose? I've lost so much already and I think that's a very useful kind of reframe of thinking about all the things that you've lost already. Um, instead of you know all the things you think you're going to gain by staying at the weight that you are.

Speaker 1: 7:31

Yeah, absolutely. I think one one turning point for me was um, one of my binge foods used to be peanut butter. I couldn't keep peanut butter in the house. I'd literally just like, you know, I'd always end up elbow deep in jars of peanut butter. And when I started intuitive eating, it's like you know, give yourself unconditional permission to eat. You know, I just thought you know how is this going to go. And you know, at first I did consume a lot of peanut butter still, but like now they sits in my cupboard and I have to throw it out because it goes bad. And I never believed I'd ever get to that point where I could have peanut butter in the house, and not only sitting there, but also that I've forgotten about that's, you know, gone dry and yeah. So that was a big point part for me.

Speaker 2: 8:15

This is a huge victory and I think, for anyone listening going, you're exactly at this point right now where food feels like it controls you a lot. So something like peanut butter or chips or whatever it is feels like it really controls you. You can get to a point where you're like Shereen and there is that neutrality and you even forget that the food even exists. Can you talk to me? Let's talk about exercise a little bit, because I know that is something that you are exceptional at providing a safe place for people of all sizes to feel comfortable to exercise. When I was exercising, it very much was always tied to losing weight. It was almost like that was the way I was raised. It was something that you did to control your weight and, as a result, exercise was a joyless, unenjoyable punishment for me. Do you think this is the biggest barrier, or what do you think is the biggest barrier for people of all sizes exercising?

Speaker 1: 9:41

I mean definitely how you said that weight exercise is completely associated with weight loss. And you know, the truth is that exercising for weight loss does the complete opposite. It demotivates us, it gives us poor body image, can lead to eating disorders, disordered eating, and it makes us not, like you say, say it takes all the joy out of it and it actually means we don't want to do it or stick to it long term. When you shift your mindset to exercising how it makes you feel and choosing exercise that you enjoy and approaching exercise from a place of self-care rather than self-punishment, you know that that's the biggest shift.

Speaker 1: 10:17

But I think, in terms of, as you're saying, with people and, you know, being inclusive for everybody, I find that traditional fitness spaces can be very, very intimidating, especially those who are in larger bodies. They've had very, very bad experiences in in gyms and they've gone there and they've been, you know, shamed for their size or automatically assumed that they are there to lose weight. Um, and then they kind of get this like you know, awful praise, like, oh, good for you, you know, and it's, you know, a lot of weight stigma, and then that's a really, really negative experience for that person. Um, and not only that as well, they're not catering to all bodies in those classes and they're assuming that everybody is this you know, one type of body and type of fitness, whereas you know being inclusive is having. You know, having a safe space, but also providing you know like variations of exercises and understanding how different bodies and different body sizes work. I think that's really important.

Speaker 2: 11:18

I think that's really important. I think that's a very liberating idea, and I think that's why the work that you do feel so important to me is because you are kind of rewriting how exercise can look for people of all sizes, all different types of bodies, and I think it's an exciting thing to see how you can kind of create those modifications that perhaps people have not even considered before. How do you then find an exercise that you enjoy, an exercise that feels right for you? What would be the process there?

Speaker 1: 11:45

I think the most important step I always find is a lot of people again, like you say have this association with exercise that it has to be hard work, has to be painful, it's not enjoyable, and then it should be this, it should be that and it's got to be, you know, set amount of time, reps. And I think the most important thing is understanding that exercise can be anything you want it to be and that any regular movement has the same health benefits. So you know, that's, um, you know, dancing, swimming, hula hooping, you know it could be cleaning, walking your dog, playing with your kids and pets that all has exactly the same health benefits. Um, and even in some studies actually, it's shown that, like it, vacuuming is, you know, even more beneficial for health than in some other classes because, especially like when you, you know you're really getting into cleaning. So I think that is one of the biggest misconceptions when people sort of go, okay, hang on a sec, I don't have to do thisIT class or do this or do something I don't like.

Speaker 1: 12:42

You know, it's really about finding movement that you enjoy, if that is going for a walk or that's, you know, dancing around your lounge room, or cleaning the house doing some gardening and just knowing that has the same health benefits, and so that's a huge part of it. And also kind of learning the history about those toxic um fitness messages that we get, you know, like go hard or go home, and again, you know this is just complete rubbish, created by the dining industry to you know, yeah, to make you feel bad and exercise out of shame and punishment, and it's all just complete rubbish. Where the truth is, you know, exercising intuitively and in a way that makes you feel good is going to be so much more beneficial, not just for the body in terms of like stress as well, but also enjoying it and sticking to it long term. So I think that's definitely, I feel, like the first step. And then just knowing that there is a way to exercise that isn't one from, you know, punishment, like knowing that you know you can stop your workout if you want to. You don't have to do all those reps or those sets, or you know it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1: 13:45

It's really about tuning into your body and listening to your body, and you know I always like to ask myself these questions before I work out, which is you know, how am I feeling today? How is my body feeling? You know what is it I feel like doing today, if anything and you can go a little bit deeper into that. You know you might be feeling like you've got a lot of high energy and something might be a bit more intense, might be soon for you, or you might be feeling a bit stressed, so you might feel like, okay, I could go for a walk and listen to a podcast and you know, it's just really sort of getting that connection with your body and, yeah, just finding a whole new positive relationship with exercise.

Speaker 2: 14:24

What would you say to someone who had the thought in their brain oh, what's the point of doing just 10 minutes of exercise? I'm not going to move the dial by doing 10 minutes of exercise a day. What would you say to that person?

Speaker 1: 14:38

What I was saying before, like 10 minutes, is, in fact, the studies show that all you need is 10 minutes a day to lower your mortality rate. And you know, 10 minutes is actually, you know, better than nine minutes, and I think that's again the thing with exercise. We've been taught it's this all or nothing, isn't it? It's like okay, okay, we're gonna go, really go into it, I'm gonna get into this routine, and then, of course, it's you know, you can't stick to it um, whereas actually 10 minutes I mean, there's this new concept going around at the moment, called exercise snacking.

Speaker 1: 15:04

Have you heard about it? Which I love? I love it and that's a great thing. You know, like just that 10 minutes, like, okay, I'm gonna, you know, do something you like for 10 minutes. It could just be putting on your favorite music and dancing, could be doing some squats, or, you know, grabbing some weights and doing that little burst throughout the day. Um, it's not only is it just as beneficial, it's probably even more so because you're more likely going to do that and stick to it, but also it's more enjoyable and it's just more achievable as well, and I just I love this concept and I'm glad it's getting popular so, true, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 15:35

and and that you so. I mean, as you said, exercise builds into a self-care model. When I had my recent baby, charlie, you know, after, in postpartum, it's just you feel so weak, your stomach muscles have really just kind of been through the ringer, and so I set myself this goal of just doing 10 minutes, where I turn up each day and I'd put on a little workout to help me reconnect between my stomach muscles, my pelvic floor, and even if I just wanted to lie there or I just wanted to do a stretch, I really had to throw out this idea that 10 minutes wasn't going to get me to where I wanted to go, which is to rebuild my strength. But I turned up every single day and I made it very enjoyable and progressively, because I found it enjoyable, I added a few minutes here and there and, next thing, you knew I was, and it does take months. It's a really long process, but I had to rebuild my strength and I think that was a really important thing.

Speaker 2: 16:32

One of the barriers I noticed while I was doing that exercise and I really had to pushback against it were the internal thoughts I had around my body image during the time I was so much heavier than I normally was. Having exercise clothes that didn't impact me was really important, even having a mirror, I think these days you go to a Pilates class and there's mirrors all around. It's reinforcing this idea. I think that how you look while you exercise is important, and I understand there's so much purpose between being able to see form and how you're doing something. But I think if you're identifying that exercising in front of a mirror is triggering for you, you don't have to exercise in front of a mirror. And what are your thoughts on this?

Speaker 1: 17:15

I think definitely not exercising in front of a mirror and what are your thoughts on this? I think I think definitely not. Exercising in front of a mirror is a really great way to exercise from a place of self-care because, like you say, you do become kind of focused on your body image if you can see yourself, um, but you say in terms, you know, sometimes for form and technique there is a place for that, but I feel like I just don't think it's that necessary. I think think yes, for me personally, scrap the mirrors and wear exercise clothes that you feel comfortable in. I mean, most of the time I exercise in my pajamas because that's how I feel most comfy in my gym jams.

Speaker 2: 17:50

I mean, I love that. I feel like my boobs would be like hitting me in the face if I tried that. I will give it a whirl and we're going to see how we go.

Speaker 2: 17:59

One of my pet peeves when I've gone to exercises classes before is the personal trainer who's yelling at you and says something to the extent of everyone has to hold a plank, and if someone drops out of the plank we all start again and there's nothing that feels more shamey and blamey and punishmenty about that then those kinds of statements, the idea that me listening to my body and the fact that this is not feeling comfortable for me is going to jeopardize everyone else's happiness, and then I'm going to be publicly shamed as a result. I think that type of training needs to die, is no place and is certainly nothing healthy about that. So I think who you go to to get your exercise support from matters so much and, as you're saying, you have to feel comfortable. If something's not feeling good for you, you're allowed to find someone like yourself who is going to tailor it, so you come out of your workout and you feel good.

Speaker 1: 18:49

Yeah, that's it. It's finding a safe and compassionate fitness space where you can feel comfortable, where there's no judgment, no talk of body image, food you know, earning and burning food and all of that stuff, especially what you just said. That sounds horrible. I'm sorry that you went through that. That's yeah, I mean I've had a fair share of awful experiences. I remember one spin instructor that was like first to vomit, I'll buy you a bottle of champagne. It's like you want people to be sick and yeah, but that one, that's awful. Like you said, that's like publicly shaming and the thing with that instructor, they're going against the complete opposite, because you know to feel intrinsically motivated, as you know, you need a positive experience and to feel good. And going to a class like that, you're going to come out of there and you're going to be like, oh, I'm never going back to that class, I don't want to do that exercise again. And then it also puts you off going to other fitness spaces as well. So it's really, I mean there's.

Speaker 1: 19:48

You know, I'm also really passionate about trying to educate other personal trainers as well. On, you know how to be more inclusive, because I've diet culture does have a lot to blame, you know, and I think a lot of people just don't realize, and that's what they're taught. You know, my personal training qualification was terrible. It's, you know, rife with diet culture, and they just don't know any other way. And I think, yeah, just being able to get that message out there, um, not just the trainers, but also to to people as well, that you know exercise doesn't have to be like this. You know, there are there are safe spaces, there are ways that you can approach exercise from a place of self care. You don't have to feel shamed or you don't have to hate it. Um, and I just think there's a lot of people come to me, go, oh I, oh, I never even knew there was another way to exercise. I thought this was it. I think so that it's just yeah, and I think just getting the message out there is so important.

Speaker 2: 20:37

And that feels quite liberating to me. I had to go through a big phase of trying to learn what exercise I enjoyed, and for me that very much looked like pulling back from intensity. I had to go back to an enjoyable walk with a podcast or a hike, something that didn't feel like it was just about me trying to to look a certain way, and I guess that's the the question I have. What advice do you have for listeners who are at that stage going okay, but how do I even find joyful movements? And, and is there a process? Do I just sign up to a bunch of classes? Do I just experiment? Do I hope for the best? Are there ways that I could Google to find a personal trainer who's going to be more aligned? What tips do you have for people?

Speaker 1: 21:18

The one thing that I love to do is a little activity, which is to I call it like the circle of joy activity, where you write down all the exercise or movement activities that you enjoy now, all the ones that you think you might enjoy and all the ones that you used to enjoy as a child, because I think that's really important. And then you write them all down and you kind of circle all the ones. You look at it and go, okay, I'm going to circle the ones that are realistic for me to actually try. I want to try and then choose one thing each week to give a go and then start doing it that way. I find that's a really good way to kind of find the enjoyable movement.

Speaker 1: 21:50

But I think what's important about that as well, that your enjoyable movement may change, so you might be really enjoying something for some time and then you might go off it and that's okay, and you might find another enjoyable movement. Because I think people think, oh, okay, I love this. I have to do this forever now, which which isn't the case either, because you know you're you're going to change, we change, you know, things that we once enjoyed we're not going to, but I think and just again getting that message out there that you know exercise can be anything you want it to be and you know, going for a walk or listening to a podcast, having a little dance party, you know that's all valid movement and I think that really helps.

Speaker 2: 22:30

Spot on, and I think this ties into a conversation around self-blame. I think in the past I had a tendency to do an exercise and if I found it hard to stick to that exercise, I blame myself. I'd say, oh, you're being inconsistent, you need better willpower, instead of realizing that I just lost the joy for whatever it is I was trying to do, instead of blaming yourself going. The reason you can't exercise is because you suck. No, let's reframe this. And that's just not what's happening at all. The exercise you are attempting to push yourself to do, to force yourself to do, is just not suited to you. So going through that experimentation phase, like Shereen mentioned, I think that's a really, really key one.

Speaker 2: 23:08

Another barrier I think that we don't talk about enough is when you're scared of people judging you for existing in a larger body. So you don't want to go into a gym because you're worried that everyone's going to go. What are you doing here? Or I used to find when I was in a bigger body, I found it really I'd either do one thing I'd be really self-conscious to go for a run because I'd worried everyone would just be judging me and I'd tell myself stories about all the things they were thinking to themselves as they saw my body, or I would force myself to be in public places so that I felt pressure to keep running, so that people would think, oh, of course she has to keep running. It can go both ways. So what are some things that you can help us when it comes to feeling like we need to look a certain way before we're allowed to start exercising in public?

Speaker 1: 23:57

spaces.

Speaker 1: 23:58

I think that's such a really good point that you've made is that you know people do feel intimidated going into a gym environment and they've had those negative experiences and I think the best thing to do if you can is to find a more supportive and inclusive fitness space, um, but if that isn't available to you, I mean taking a friend can be something really help with, like, going there. So you've got that kind of support. But I mean, the truth is, people in the gym I mean, as you know, they only care about themselves, right, that's it like, yeah, they're not, but that I mean it doesn't stop you from feeling that way and, like you say, when you are, um, in a, in a larger body, you've had those experiences and that that weight stigma before, where they might have tried to even weigh you, or you know trying to push a program on you, or you go into the toilet and they've got those awful before and after pictures and you know all this messaging um. But like I mean if, if you find that, I mean taking a friend, I think knowing that people aren't paying attention, but I think you know, if that's really something that's not going to work for you, then doing an online finding, an online community might be better to get your confidence up first.

Speaker 2: 25:11

I really, I really appreciate that. I always think as well with body image. We can sometimes think of it like a destination, like you one day go oh cool, I want to reach a Mecca where I suddenly feel really great about my body and I never have to worry. But sadly, we live in a world that constantly tells us that your worth is dependent on how you look and therefore I think about body images more of like a yoga practice. It is just a constant practice where the world is going to throw you judgments about how you think you're meant to look and you need to have, you need to build up the skills so that when you get the thought that goes oh my goodness, I bet they're wondering like I can't believe that woman's exercising when she looks like that you have to be able to offer yourself a reminder and these frequent reminders and go.

Speaker 2: 25:52

You know what. No one's thinking that or that's okay, I'm allowed to exercise, my body is worthy of respect. So you have these go-to statements, almost like you're like whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. You can just fire back your like punchy one-liners. Because you need to have these reminders as backup, because you're doing the practice of body image practice. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2: 26:14

I love that. That's great. Let's talk a little bit about intuitive eating and non-dieting and all that jazz. I think there is a bit of confusion about what intuitive eating is and what non-dieting is, and I don't think that while they're similar and they tie into each other, they are not one in the same, and so I think there's a misconception that intuitive eating is just eat whatever I want whenever I want, and that's not the case. Can you talk to us a little bit about that?

Speaker 1: 26:44

Yeah, absolutely. I think the biggest misconception about intuitive eating is that, as you said also, that it doesn't care about health, which isn't the case at all. You know, intuitive eating is a self-care model. It's about, you know, tuning into your body, eating foods that make you feel good, eating foods that you know nourish you, sustain you. But to get to that stage that's that kind of like eat what I want, eat whenever I want. I mean, at the beginning of intuitive eating you do have to kind of let go of all those diet rules and you've just kind of, you know, you've kind of got to throw yourself in. So I think that's where it's kind of got that idea.

Speaker 1: 27:19

Because the problem is, if you go into intuitive eating already with a set of rules, it's the same as a diet, right, because you're going in there, going, okay, I can only eat when I'm hungry. I've got to stop when I'm full. And there's so much nuance around that I mean when you've come out of a period of dieting or an eating disorder, as you know, you are starving, ok, so your hunger levels are going to be all over the place. It's going to take a little while for your hunger signals to, you know, regulate again and by eating consistently and nourishing your body. That's all going to help. And same with your fullness signals.

Speaker 1: 27:47

We've obviously always been taught to you know, eat everything on our plate as we were growing up, and also in dining, you give yourself these tiny little portions, right, and you eat everything because you know, okay, this is all I'm going to have for the day. And it's really about tuning into you know what fullness feels like for you and giving yourself enough food. So, but I think, yeah, with intuitive eating, it is a self-care approach. It does care about health. It's very much about eating foods that make you feel good and sustain you, but it's about just having no rules, rejecting all those shoulds and you know, those don'ts and everything from from diet culture and just um relearning to eat in the way that you're born with and I think what you've described here is almost that.

Speaker 2: 28:31

I think of it like a refeeding period. Once you start to come, you go okay, I'm allowed to eat anything I want. There is this refeeding period where you, as you said, you are starved, emotionally and physically hungry and, like you talked about with your peanut butter experience, once you put it back on the menu, there was a period of time where you went a little bit like, oh, I can have peanut butter, finally, I can have peanut butter, finally I can eat it all the time. And you did. And after a while you started to realize, oh, I can eat peanut butter anytime I want. And with that realization and not just thought, but the real deep sinking into the acceptance that peanut butter truly is always allowed, it's never going to be taken off the menu that's when you started to find that, oh, you found your balance with peanut butter and peanut butter lost its power over you. And so I think this is I don't even know how to describe it yet, but in my mind I think about it as like a murky forest in intuitive eating, as I said, it's the hardest bit is getting started, because you do have to trudge through this murky period in the beginning, where you start to bring these foods back in. You reintroduce them I teach you how to do this in my Binge Free Academy and how do we introduce them in a way that doesn't make us feel triggered to go on a diet again, because that is one of the challenges as well.

Speaker 2: 29:38

You go through recovery. Some people gain weight, you gain weight, you go almost now I have to go back to those old coping strategies and you ditch intuitive eating because you don't have the right structure around it. But I guess what you're saying was I want everyone to know this is there is a murky period and you do come out of the other end of it and you have that calm and the relaxed, responsive food and that's when you can start to go okay. Well, now I can incorporate a bit more of the I'm going to wait till I feel hungry concept into it because you can, whereas before it started to sometimes it can feel like a diet rule where you're going I have to wait until I'm hungry before I'm eat, and then you start to be able to lean into the idea of I'm allowed to wait until I feel hungry to eat a little bit more as you progress and as you recover more, it can feel like when you quit dieting you can lose yourself a little bit.

Speaker 2: 30:24

I know I felt that way. I felt as though my identity was very much dieting. I was the diet guru in my group at high school. I was obsessed with losing weight. It was my identity, and when you get to this point where you go I don't want to be this person anymore you can feel quite lost. Can you relate to this and how do you find yourself again at this point?

Speaker 1: 30:47

Oh, definitely. I think the thing, as you explained so well, dieting, you know it does serve this purpose, this identity, for us, but what it actually does is, you know, distracts us, right. So it takes us away from pursuing our true goals and the things that we're really passionate about, because we're so focused and hyper focused on dieting that we just don't have the brain space for anything else. And we've also been taught that our whole self-worth is around dialing and, you know, losing weight and our body image. So we feel like, you know, okay, that is a valid identity.

Speaker 1: 31:20

And when you stop dialing, you find, like you say, you find yourself a little bit lost, because you know that dialing was that control as well, it was, you know, having something to focus on.

Speaker 1: 31:29

And then suddenly you're like, okay, you know, what do I do now and I say in terms of emotions as well. A lot of people really struggle with that because they may have used dieting as a coping mechanism as well. So it's really working on that emotional well-being, but I think, also just looking at it as like, wow, you know, I now have the brain space, I now have, you know, I can be present, I can pursue my dreams and my and one of the things I like to do is like writing a list of all those things that dining might have held you back from if that was, you know, not applying for that job or not going to having a swim at the beach, not getting that haircut, not going away with your friends for the weekend because you have to be a certain weight. Writing down all those things and slowly starting to do all those things that dining held you back from and ticking that off slowly, I think that's one of the best ways to start living again and finding things that you enjoy.

Speaker 2: 32:21

I love it, a non-diet bucket list. I think that is really cool to make you feel like yourself and find your spark again. Shireen, I've loved chatting to you, but I want to hear about you have a book called Be you, be Free. Can you tell us about it? Because if you like this conversation then I bet you're going to like this book.

Speaker 1: 32:39

So Be you, be Free is more than just a book. It is a workbook and guide all in one that will help you break free from dialing and find your true identity and purpose outside darling as well. It will help you, you know, find food freedom, build a positive body image and a real fun relationship with exercise, but mostly it will help you become the person that you were meant to be before diet culture told you who you had to be oh, I love this so much, and where can people get the book?

Speaker 1: 33:08

you can find it through my instagram, which is shireen underscore bub3. There's a link on there and there's also lots of helpful content around exercise and body image and things like that that you might find too.

Speaker 2: 33:24

If you don't follow Shireen already, I am going to leave a link in the show notes so you can go follow her. I love following you, shireen. I feel like you give such good tips. I love your content. Please do go follow along and, shireen, thank you so much for today's conversation and all your tips.

Speaker 1: 33:38

Thank you so much for having me.