Speaker 1: 0:39

I finally found recovery and found my way out of that sort of nightmare and that storm, and I'm a little bit over six and a half years clean.

Speaker 2: 0:47

I know once you hit the limelight, winning Australian Idol, the pressures on your body image certainly would have escalated.

Speaker 1: 0:54

I eat one too many blocks of chocolate or bits of chocolate and I just go fuck it and I throw the whole day in the bin. And then I go into what I call the last hurrah for me. I'm just like right and I eat all the bad foods all the foods that I consider bad, that I can, because tomorrow I'm never going to eat them again. And it's very much the same behavior and the same mindset as I had with drugs. A lot of my things are just driven by self-obsession. I'm just thinking about myself all the time, until I had a baby. You can't, you just can't think about yourself all the time. Your focus has to shift from yourself to this little person that you're wholly and solely in charge of. That's been one of the greatest lessons for me.

Speaker 2: 1:39

Oh, hey you, and welcome to this week's episode of the no Wellness Wankery podcast. I am your host, lindy Cohen, a dietician, nutritionist, who thinks life's way too short to obsess over every almond you eat, don't you? You've tried that and we know it doesn't work. So this podcast is all about revealing the science, the real stuff that you need to know, so you don't waste your life on that wellness nonsense that doesn't actually work. And we talk about all things like body image and getting recovery from disordered eating. So if that sounds interesting to you, welcome to this podcast.

Speaker 2: 2:10

In today's episode, I'm going to be speaking with Kate D'Agio. Now, if you're an Australian, you're going to know her name. You've probably heard of her because she rose to fame when she won Australian Idol in 2005. I was 15 at the time, very much looking up to her, and her first single, maybe Tonight, was certified platinum, and then her second single also received platinum status. She was a big deal. She was really going places. But while her career was honestly soaring, doing so well, she was facing significant struggles with food and substance addiction, including drugs and alcohol, which we are going to talk about today. Thankfully, she has come a really long way. She was able to overcome her addictions, which we are going to talk about, and has now been clean for six years. She has a loving husband, an 18-month-old baby boy, and she's created a podcast called why Do I Feel this Way, which is a really, really great listen. She's created a podcast called why Do I Feel this Way, which is a really, really great listen. I'm very excited for Kate to share her story with us and exactly where she's at and where she's going to from here. Welcome to the podcast, kate.

Speaker 2: 3:14

Kate, welcome to the show. Thanks, leni, thank you for having me. I'm delighted to have you. Honestly, I feel very, very special to have you on here. I watched you growing up we all did and so I'm keen to hear a little bit more about I don't know behind it all, because I think we've seen a bit of the gloss. You really transparently talk about everything on Instagram, on TikTok, so for anyone who doesn't know your story, who's first time here, can you tell us a little bit about your cliff notes?

Speaker 1: 3:43

your story. Well, it's quite a multi-layered story but I'll keep it as brief as I can. You know it was a young girl always struggled with my body and my weight and my food from as long as I can remember. I reckon I first started eating in a weird kind of way from about the age of five, carried through life struggling, dieting pretty early, and then I won this television show called Australian Idol and then I went through a really public battle with my weight and I was in that.

Speaker 1: 4:08

I grew up in that time of those early 2000s where the idea of what was beautiful was Kate Moss and if you weren't that, you weren't it. You know, there was just lots of really big moments in my life that really drove home and confirmed that core messaging and core belief of mine that my body was shit and that I needed to look different and that I needed to be better, to be lovable and to be beautiful. It eventually landed me, I think played a big part in me finding myself fighting, you know, a 14 year drug and alcohol addiction and you know my body image and all that was wrapped up in that as well whilst trying to manage a career and losing a career and, you know, losing everything else that goes with that. And then about six years ago, I finally found recovery and found my way out of that sort of nightmare and that storm and I'm a little bit over six and a half years clean and I have a beautiful, full life. I have an 18 month old baby, a beautiful partner and you know I'm very grateful that I have my life back.

Speaker 1: 5:00

But, you know, waking up out of that shit show sorry, I hope I can swear here I've got a bit of a potty mouth you know was still this core problem and core issue that I'd had since I was a little girl and that was, you know, all these ridiculous belief systems and ideas that I had about what was well and what was healthy and what dieting was and what balance was. And actually I didn't have any idea of what balance is and I still struggle with it. Balance isn't something I'm good at. And, yeah, the last six years has sort of been trying to do that last big piece of work and work out how to treat my body with kindness and look after it and try and be realistic about it too, and it's like I'm definitely getting better.

Speaker 2: 5:39

But it's been a battle and it's like I'm definitely getting better, but it's been a battle and it's incredibly tough because you and I a lot of us women we grew up in a time where it was more socially acceptable to have an eating disorder, to under eat, to skip meals, to do incredibly disordered things to our body, than it was to be at a slightly heavier weight. And I know, once you hit the limelight, winning Australian Idol, the pressures on your body image certainly would have escalated. There was that comment from Kyle Sandilands. Can you talk to me about that time and what it felt like coming into this going? I didn't really like my body that much before, a bit of a turbulent relationship, and now I am one of the biggest pop stars in Australia.

Speaker 1: 6:15

Yeah. So I guess that comment you know the old famous comment and at that moment I didn't realise maybe the impact that it was going to have on not just me but lots of other people. And I guess by that point my relationship with my body was pretty messy and it wasn't healthy or kind. So what he said to me came as no surprise in a way. It was kind of like oh yeah, I kind of already knew that, like I'm hideous, I'm gross, cover all this way. It was kind of like, oh yeah, I kind of already knew that, like I'm hideous, I'm gross, cover all this up. It was just a drive home for me that all the things that I'd already thought about myself were true. So it probably didn't shock me initially, but I guess I've certainly carried it with me.

Speaker 1: 6:51

But yeah, I think any well, I can't talk for young girls of this time, but I'm assuming it's the same. You know, the relationship with our bodies and not just women but men is it's very personal and there's so much shame can be wrapped up in it, and I guess to do it on a public platform took it into almost a traumatic. I guess it was. I read this somewhere recently. It was like deaths by a thousand paper cuts. There was no one big massive trauma, but it was just lots and lots of little traumas that added up to, you know, a little bit of PTSD about my body, I guess.

Speaker 2: 7:22

Yeah, and you know, we know with all the research that with eating disorders and trauma, there is such a clear correlation between experiencing moments of trauma and with addiction. It's all. There's a lot of crossover. Yeah, ken, I talk about. You've had this viral TikTok that you created that I loved, loved, loved. So basically, you are giving us a day in the life of someone who experiences food noise, a constant chitter, chatter of what are we going to eat, how long are we going to fast for? Can I eat at 11am, peeking into the fridge, coming in, coming out. Can you talk to me about your experience with food noise? What's it, what it's been like? And we're also going to talk about Ozempic, so lead into it as you like.

Speaker 1: 8:06

Well, I have had food noise for like I don't know when. I haven't had food noise like my constant bargaining with myself. Food and how I'm going to behave around. Food is the very first thing I think of when I maybe before I even open my eyes, when I open my eyes to the last thing that I talk to myself about before I go to sleep and all the places in between. And it's just because I've always been forever chasing this body that is unattainable for me. I just am always on a diet or I'm always trying to. There's always a goal I'm chasing and it's I just am forever obsessed with food.

Speaker 1: 8:39

And even when and I've realized this recently even when I'm in on a diet or successfully dieting, shall we say, it doesn't the food noise isn't any better.

Speaker 1: 8:48

It's in fact louder, I think, because I'm constantly trying to survive until the next meal that I've allocated or that I'm allowed, or the next calorie that I can consume, and it is.

Speaker 1: 8:58

It's just that, from the minute I wake up, right today's it we're going to get through today, we're going to do it perfectly, and then, if I can't reach that goal that I've set, how can I bargain with myself to make it acceptable and then normally, 99.9% of the time, I hit a point in the day where the chatter gets too loud, I eat one too many blocks of chocolate or bits of chocolate and I just go fuck it and I throw the whole day in the bin.

Speaker 1: 9:54

And then I go into what I call the last hurrah for me. I'm just like right and I eat all the biscuits and all the chocolate and all the dim sims and all the bad foods, all the foods that I consider bad, that I can, because tomorrow I'm never going to eat them again. And it's very much the same behaviour and the same mindset as I had with drugs. You know it, as I had with drugs. It's that same thing of every day getting to a certain point, promising myself I'd be different tomorrow and being totally powerless the next day over my behavior, despite my best efforts.

Speaker 2: 10:23

Have you ever received treatment for binge eating, binge eating disorder like that?

Speaker 1: 10:28

No, and I think it's fear. I don't know why I haven't. I'm certainly starting to look at it and go. You know, I didn't expect that I would be able to get recovery in. You know my addictions from the big ones like drugs, alcohol, gambling, yada, yada and maybe why do I think that I'm going to be able to do this without a little bit of help? And maybe it's not about nothing to do with my lack of willpower or commitment to myself or laziness or just weakness? It actually goes and runs a bit deeper than that and maybe I need to look at getting or not. Maybe I definitely need to look at getting some outside help.

Speaker 2: 11:05

Yeah, spot on Binge eating, which is my specialty as a dietician, something I struggled with for a decade. That wholly controlled me. It is one of those things if left untreated, it tends to get worse, it doesn't get better and we try harder and we just oh, we're going to try and do the diet extra good tomorrow and then the exact same thing happens. I got to the point where I was binge eating multiple times a day. What I've seen in recovery is recovery for people can be quite swift and it can also be a bit of a slow process, but every little moment that you can get back in your binge recovery can give you that sense of calm, more control.

Speaker 2: 11:39

It ain't easy. It's a bloody slug, I'm not going to lie, I would sugarcoat it, but that food noise does reduce. And you talked about on your TikTok recently coming off Ozempic and your experience with it and one of those benefits we talk about with Ozempic and, by the way, I'm not expressly for or against Ozempic, I think I'm very in the middle at the moment, going listen, there's time use case for us and one of the benefits I've seen from people is a reduction in food noise and this is one of those things that you went. Okay, wait, I had this chitter, chatter, constant noise, and then it went. This person who had been in my brain the whole time suddenly didn't exist in your brain. What was that like?

Speaker 1: 12:18

It was amazing. It was so peaceful and I guess, with that noise gone and that chatter also instantly really reduced my anxiety levels. You know what I mean. I get anxious about failing and all of the stuff that comes along with that. You know, war at oneself with food, like the anxiety level some days can be so, which then actually just drives me to eat more anyway, you know, because I think I'm going to get some kind of relief from eating, and I do for that mini second.

Speaker 1: 12:51

So, yeah, not only did it take away the food noise, but it made my day-to-day life so much more peaceful, and I'm not for nor against it either. I had to go off it for my own personal reasons, um, you know, which I'll discuss at some point on my, on my platforms but I, um, I'd never experienced anything like that and I've had all the things. I've had full body lipo, I've had gastric sleeves, I've done diet pills, I've done all of anything, all the things you can in fact get like the lot and it's the only thing I've ever used that removed that noise. For me it was magical.

Speaker 2: 13:25

Before putting you on Ozempic, was there any doctor, any person who said to you hey, listen, you might have an underlying eating disorder, disordered eating, happening here. Perhaps you want to get treatment for it while you're doing Ozempic?

Speaker 1: 13:39

To a degree. Look, I was on sexcender and I know they're slightly different, but they're essentially the same thing.

Speaker 1: 13:44

Look, my doctor made me go through a series of tests to check my blood tests and things like that, to check my overall wellness, and she did say look, what are you doing during this time? It was never a long-term discussion from my doctor. It wasn't like this is your answer forever? Like, what are you going to do through this time while you're on it to make your life better? On the other end, when you come off it, to be honest, I probably didn't do. I was too busy enjoying the quiet. I probably didn't do. I was too busy just living my life. I probably didn't do the level of work that I should have and could have, because I forgot that I needed to, because it was so peaceful, but probably not to the degree that maybe there should. The discussion wasn't there that maybe should have been.

Speaker 2: 14:27

Oh, that is such a very interesting point. I mean the motivation to actually seek help when the problem no longer exists can totally dissolve. So I fully understand, now that you put it like that, I fully understand why nothing happens. And now that you're noticing, kate, I have the food noises returning. I feel motivated again to kind of seek some kind of clarity here.

Speaker 2: 14:46

I will just reinforce that practicing in a way that can reduce binge eating can significantly reduce food noise. Does it take it away? No, I don't think so. I don't think when you live in a world that thinks the most impressive thing a woman can be is thin, you can get to a point where you can totally remove that noise without some kind of medical intervention. I haven't seen that before, but you can take it from feeling deafening and overwhelming and constant to being just every so often, a food thought. Like you know, the week before your period you go oh, I've got a few more food thought than usual. But it is kind of one of those things you can really breathe through work, through resolve. Yeah, so your relationship with food right now, where are you at?

Speaker 1: 15:28

it's a day-to-day proposition. I look like like addiction and you know it's a bit heavy what I'm about to say, but in a lighthearted way, like I guess food for me and the tricky thing I believe I have a disease of addiction and that's a whole other conversation for another day Like I would get addicted to the air if I thought it would get me out of my feelings. I truly believe that. But I guess food is a behaviour and something that I have to do. I can't just remove food from my life, and that's the heart.

Speaker 1: 15:57

If I could just be totally abstinent from food, that might be different for me. But I guess having food of any kind in the house is a bit like putting a bowl of drugs on my kitchen table and saying now you can have a little bit, but once you've had a little bit and it's the same kind of thing for me. So once I start eating for the day, I often find that that's when it really ramps up, if I can. For me at the moment, fasting to a certain point of the day helps me keep a little bit more in control. But I also know that that's not a long-term solution either. But look, it's a day-to-day proposition and it's certainly something I'm starting to investigate and look and not being so harsh on myself when I don't behave the way that I think I need to around food in a day and go. We've got some work to do here, kate, but my language towards myself is a lot more gentle than it used to be, which is a big achievement in itself. That's a huge achievement.

Speaker 2: 16:53

That is. I mean so much of that self-hate drives our binge eating as well. If you ever do want to talk about binge eating, recovery, all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 17:01

I'm already going to call you as soon as I finish chatting here, hang on, help me out, I got your back.

Speaker 2: 17:07

Can we talk about substance use? And I will say you're spot on. I definitely think that there is a difference between being addicted to food and addicted to substances. We need food to survive, can't just go cold turkey, and so we do treat them quite differently in recovery. Can you tell me about your experience with substance abuse? When did it start and when did you reach a point that you thought there's no other way I have to get?

Speaker 1: 17:30

out of this. Yeah, I mean, it's not pretty. I was a late starter with drugs. I guess I drank, you know, the first time I ever got drunk. I did it to excess, you know, I drank 1.25 liter bottle of bourbon and spewed all over myself, cheated on my boyfriend and got grounded. So that's where it started, you know. But I didn't do it again for a long time.

Speaker 1: 17:48

But by the time I met cocaine, I was within the music industry and to, to be honest, being offered a line of coke was very, you know, it was like being offered a beer, it was. It was kind of not a look down upon thing. Um, and you know, from the moment I met cocaine or drugs, it was very quickly my solution. It solved a lot of. It solved the issues that I'd been trying to hide from and run from and solve since I was a little girl, and that was to feel, to remove all my inhibitions and insecurities, feel cool, feel accepted, feel a part of the cool kids and, more importantly, it took away my desire again to eat food when I was using it. So you know as much as I didn't realize it in that moment, the first time that I tried drugs, that I'd have essentially changed the course and the direction of my life forever. Wouldn't a crystal ball be marvellous? But you know, it was really on from there and it just progressed and it became as that particular drug didn't give me the same relief as it once did.

Speaker 1: 18:51

You know, the drugs that I use change, and the way that I use them change, and the people that I hung out with change, and it progressed and it progressed and it progressed until, you know, I met methamphetamines, which essentially was the drug that brought me to my knees and it really solved all the problems for me and, interestingly enough, in my career which I eventually lost to drugs, but I had had a gastric sleeve and I then, you know, really got stuck into meth and essentially I was the thinnest I'd ever been.

Speaker 1: 19:19

I was really about 64 kilos and I'd never been taken so seriously and everybody around me was like you're doing a good job, kate, keep doing whatever it is you're doing, you're nailing it and and for me, like inside, I was the sickest I'd ever been, but I was getting praised for the way that I looked. So it was a really confusing time and long story short, you know, those last five years I had to use methamphetamines every day just to function in the world. And I, you know, met a really dangerous human that I spent a lot of time with and one day I just looked at myself in the mirror and I knew that if things didn't change in that moment I was going to die. And unfortunately it had to get there for me and that was where my journey of recovery started. And again, it wasn't easy and it was pretty brutal, but it was life or death for me in the end.

Speaker 2: 20:11

And so you entered rehab at that point.

Speaker 1: 20:14

Yep, yep, six and a bit years ago, yeah, I entered a rehab in Melbourne and haven't used a drug since.

Speaker 2: 20:21

What was it that made you decide that this was? I mean, I know you hit rock bottom, but how come no relapse?

Speaker 1: 20:27

there Poor. How come no relapse? Because I did the. I just knew. I knew that if I went back out, I knew, look, I'm a drug addict, so I'll never say there's no more using in me, there's plenty like. There's plenty of that in me, like I know. But I I don't know if I've ever got a day one of recovery again, um, and I don't know if I picked up how long it would take me if I'd ever make it back, um, and I just did the things that I'd been taught in rehab to do. Then I practiced them, Like I'm a big member of NA, narcotics Anonymous, and I went to these meetings and I found a community of people that understood me and we support each other and I think that's such a big, important part for whatever you are struggling with whether it be food, alcohol, mental health, whatever it might be I think finding people that get you and that you can talk to without judgment is one of the biggest, most important things to finding recovery or sanity of any kind.

Speaker 1: 21:24

So yeah, I think it's just been the way. I've worked a program and continued to work it and put my recovery first is why I haven't relapsed. But I also know that if I don't continue to do that, I'm only a couple of dumb decisions away from going backwards.

Speaker 2: 21:37

You mentioned at the beginning of the chat that Kate Moss was very much the idol growing up. She was the epitome of beauty during our time and very much known for that heroin chic ideal. You mentioned this idea of actually taking drugs because it took away the food noise. It took away food as an issue as your body image became a nullified thing, and I know for myself I did lots of unhealthy things.

Speaker 2: 22:00

Similarly, whether it's taking drugs or I started smoking all the time, I start my morning with energy drinks, sugar-free energy drinks, anything I could do to try and take away that, thinking about my food, thinking about my body, the constantness of it, and so I think people think you know body image is this silly kind of frivolous idea, but actually it can really drive a whole bunch of really unhealthy decisions that we make for ourselves, particularly in a world that's glorifying someone like Kate Moss's like the epitome of beauty. What would you say to someone who was currently struggling, whether it's with food or drug and alcohol substance abuse? What would you say? What would you say to someone who was currently struggling, whether it's with food or drug and alcohol substance abuse? What would you say? What would you want them?

Speaker 1: 22:40

to know, I guess, that chasing that body that was so far from realistic for me, like I had to. Also when I got into recovery, I had to grieve this idea that I was ever going to be a 22-year-old supermodel for lots of reasons. By the time I got clean, I was 32. It didn't matter how much lettuce or time I spent on a treadmill, I was never going to be a 22-year-old supermodel. That just wasn't my life, which was a really hard pill for me to swallow and a big grieving process.

Speaker 1: 23:09

But I think for me the core of it all has always been that I needed to be that way to be lovable, and that was the belief system that I created through the public, you know, through media and what I was fed as a young girl and then what I experienced firsthand within the music industry in the public eye. But I think women can get to that point without all that. You know, I think, just media alone, and it was always about somebody else being able to love me for the body that I lived in and that it was never going to be possible and it's just simply not true. Like I have a partner who loves me, no matter what I look like and it's got nothing to do with the way that my body is or what jiggles or what doesn't jiggle, or what stretch mark or what scar there is. It's nothing. Beauty doesn't come.

Speaker 1: 23:49

And I think the most important lesson I learned through all of it was I felt the same way about my body and I've been 132 kilos. Look it up on the internet. I've been 132 kilos and I've been 65 kilos. And I felt the same way about my body and hated myself equally at both ends of the spectrum. And I think that it doesn't matter how many drugs you take or how many diets you do, unless you do the inside work. You're never going to love what's on the outside anyway and that's been my lesson in it. Like, the drugs aren't going to fix it, the size of your genes aren't going to fix it. If you're chasing acceptance, it's an inside job. It's nothing to do with what anybody on the outside thinks.

Speaker 2: 24:30

How did becoming a parent change you? Well, hudson's now 18 months. I found the postnatal phase really tricky. Becoming a mother, you just get thrown in life sacrifice incredibly hard thing to do. How's it been for you?

Speaker 1: 24:46

It's certainly been one of the most humbling experiences of my life. I think it's also taught me how to not be so self-obsessed. You know what I mean. Like, also, a lot of my things are just driven by self-obsession. I'm just thinking about myself all the time, until I had a baby. You can't you just can't think about yourself all the time. You know your focus has to shift from yourself to this little person that you're wholly and solely in charge of. I think that's been one of the greatest lessons for me to just get out of my own, just stop thinking about myself, and my values and what I value about myself, too, has changed. I think I don't value expensive clothes or all those things have shifted. But yeah, he's been a very humbling experience for me.

Speaker 2: 25:33

And just to finish up, what do you wish 15-year-old you?

Speaker 1: 25:36

knew. Oh golly, I wish, I just wish I could pick her up and scoop her up and just take her through all of that stuff and just explain all of the things that she or you think are important right now, in 15 years' time or however many years' time it is, they just don't matter. And I wish I could undo those ideas that were so firmly planted of what she needed to be to be okay in the world and just show her that it was just so not right.

Speaker 2: 26:11

Yeah, well, I have no doubt that your son is going to be given all those messages that I wish, 15 year old, you was given. Oh, bless your heart. Hey, how can we find you?

Speaker 1: 26:22

follow along, let's see how you are changing and doing good uh well, instagram is still quite a mystery to me, so if you are listening to this and want to help my following on instagram, please go and follow me there I'll leave a link to your Instagram in the show notes.

Speaker 1: 26:36

Yeah, please go there because I can't work that one out. But other than that, if you find me on TikTok and Facebook and we've got a new season of why Do I Feel this Way, which is my podcast coming out really soon, which is just lots of really cool and interesting people talking about their journeys of life, whether it be anything. You know, it's not just about drugs and alcohol, it's any kind of adversity and how they found their way out and some kind of new life and peace and quiet.

Speaker 2: 27:04

And it's bloody fantastic that podcast, so go have a listen, guys. I will leave the links to everything down below. Kate, you're a gem. So grateful, thank you. Thank you so much, lovely chatting to you.